term agenda directly to the voters. chris matthews and "hardball" is next. obama and his enemies. let's play "hardball." ♪ obama and his enemies. let's play "hardball." ♪ obama and his enemies. let's play "hardball." ♪ obama and his enemies. let's play "hardball." ♪ obama and his enemies. let's play "hardball." ♪ obama and his enemies. let's play "hardball." ♪let's play "hardball." ♪ obama and his enemies. let's play "hardball." ♪ obama and his enemies. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. let me start with this tonight. elections matter. we got "w" and the iraq war. without the first we wouldn't have gotten the second. last year we re-elected obama and got a progressive state of the union. elections matter. listen to this, he pressed to rebuild america starting with our bridges out there. a push for a $9 minimum wage, real immigration reform, a decision to end the war in afghanistan by the end of next year and an end to progressive government itself.

we'll talk about smoking out oured a ver ir is as. the failure of opposition like today' puny pathetic reaction from the other side. tonight the crazed unequal day we heard in washington. this large but unmistakable declaration of how small has become this right leaning opposition. small, squeaky, and spiteful. i'm joind by amy cloeb sure. and chuck todd. a democratic president made this pronouncement about a government in america. >> we have work to give the american people. a smaller, less bureaucratic government in washington. and we have to give the people one that lives within its means. the era of big government is over. >> last night this president

barack obama gave a strong role and criticized republicans who say we must balance the budget. take a listen. >> it is our unfinished task to make sure that this government works on behalf of the many. and not just the few. over the last few years, both parties have worked together to reduce the deficit by more than $2.5 trillion. mostly through spending cuts but also by raising tax rates on the wealthiest 1% of americans. we can't ask senior citizens and families to shoulder the entire burden while asking nothing more from the wealthiest and powerful. most democrats, republicans, and independents understand that we can't just cut our way to prosperity. >> senator, thank you for joining us tonight. it seems to me there was a statement there from the president which is clearly distinguished from the statement president bill clinton made in an attempt to get re-election

back in '96. he wasn't apologetic. he was positive about the role of government last night. and it got a backlash from the other side today. >> well, it doesn't surprise me it got a backlash. but i think it was one of the best state of the unions president obama has given. he said this is what we have to do. he started right in. i remember sitting thinking wow he just started right in on the economy. what needs to be done. we didn't even have copies of the speech. just simply a point-by-point agenda. part of the beauty of not having the speech was nobody read it ahead of time. you had the powerful moment at the end when the entire congress was standing whether they agreed with what he was saying about victims of gun violence, there was this moment where people said yeah we should have a vote. he didn't say you have to vote with me. he said these people deserve a vote. i think it was a bread and butter speech about very clear economic agenda for the country. i didn't see it as a caustic

speech. they were simply words that said let's get this done. let's get this going. we need no reduce our debt in a balanced way but we also have to move forward as a country to compete in this global economy. >> well, chuck's here as well. chuck todd. here's the republican reaction we were mentioning there. it was out in force today. senator minority leader mitch mcconnell said the speech was full of recycled liberal talking points. let's listen to the senator. >> an opportunity to bring together the country instead became another retread of lip service and liberalism. for a democratic president entering his second term, it was simply unequal to the moment. following four years of this president's unwillingness to challenge liberal dogma, we got more of the same. >> well, speaker john boehner

dismissed the president's proposal to raise the minimum wage to $9 on hour. let's listen to the speaker. >> listen. i've been dealing with the minimum wage issue for the last 28 years that i've been in elective office. and when you raise the price of employment, guess what happens. you get less of it. at a time when the american people are still asking the question where are the jobs, why would we want to make it harder for small employers to hire people? >> you know, chuck, last night reminded me of high school debating. it was the same old arguments. i mean, i'm not putting him down necessarily. but what we heard from senator rubio and boehner. let's fight over minimum wage. the evils of minimum wage. >> this is where you look at this -- and i look at this speech as a political document. you look at the minimum wage is a 65% approved item. when you look at universal

pre-k. that's a 65% approval. when you look at the idea of having high schools get more skill -- teach more actic skills, this is 65% ideals. it's similar to what bill clinton would pull on republicans in the late '90s. thad say they seem liberal. >> school uniforms. >> all this stuff. and yet it's what average people around the kitchen table are thinking well, you know what? universal pre-k. i wish i could do that. i can't afford this private school and i'm not poor enough to qualify for assistance here. so if republicans find themselves where they're letting the president talk about kitchen table issues and have that conversation on his own and they're not having it. so the minimum wage is a classic thing. they're going to end up looking like they're on the wrong side. because there's an argument that the minimum wage is sort of like the payroll tax cut. it's actually a way to put stimulus into the economy. because what happens when you

have lower income people, you give them more money, they spend it all. so there's a -- some economists who say you know what? you want to stimulate consumerism, give lower income people more money. >> you know, senator, you deal with people all the time. this seems like an easy way to smoke out your opponents and prove their the elite party. more people would like to get minimum wage than those who want to pay it. there are few employers out there who aren't employees. and every man or woman wants to see the minimum wage go up because that means theirs will. it happens that way. >> the things the president talked about last night are things people are talking about at the dinner table. they're talking about are we really going to be able to afford to send our children cocollege? can we actually buy a house and make the down payment? the fact he went into the mortgage issue and making it easier for people to refinance their homes. that's what i loed about this

speech. i also like the fact that he raised many issues where there's bipartisan work already. immigration reform, energy independence. the fact that he was able to celebrate how far we've come and talked about the oil drilling as well as the renewables. so i think there was a lot of good things in this speech that could bring people together. i'm not surprised by the reaction today. one thing you have to notice in the chamber last night it wasn't incredibly partisan. there weren't boos or yells. people were listening intently. and i think they know we have to move forward as a nation. >> politico called last night an aggressive speech. quote were for all the talk about bipartisan cooperation, obama couldn't have been clearer. he's confident his agenda will have popular support. now going around the country pressing his case. he was in north carolina today where he pushed his manufacturing policies and he made sure to call out congress

on that point. let's watch him in asheville today. >> i'm doing what i can just through administrative action. but i need congress to help. i need congress to do their part. i need congress to do their part. i need congress to take up these initiatives, because we've come too far and worked too hard to turn back now. >> you know, there's a preacher aspect to the president. repeating himself, kind of a repetition. last night i was watching it. that cadence, repetition, repetition. what's that about? >> i would just say there was a whole sense of he seems -- he seems more confident than we've seen him in awhile. look at the previous state of the union. each one came at a time when he was a little nervous. either nervous because of something he was dealing in the republican house. nervous it was a re-election state of the union. nervous because health care was on there. think of 2010, 2011, 2012.

this one, from the minute he walked in, he had this confidence that was different about him. and the fact he got that entire -- i think it's quite remarkable what happened at the end of that state of the union. i don't think people realized how cynical -- no offense, senator cloeb sure -- how cynical members of congress are. and when they find themselves caught up in a moment of just -- and it was bipartisan. i saw jeff sessions stand up, clap, looking at everybody. >> what was it like -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> what did they feel like sitting with republicans as you were intermingled? how many people make it to 102 anyway and who stands for eight hours in a line at any age? you couldn't not stand for. >> actually i was sitting next to jeff sessions. he was my state of the union date for the third year, chuck. so maybe there's a reason he was standing. i remember turning to him, i actually said you can't not stand for a 102-year-old woman.

i truly believe there was this element of surprise and people getting taken up in the moment. will that change what positions they'll take on everything? no. but there was a civility in that room that we need to set some common ground. it carried over today. incredible hearing on immigration reform. i really believe we have some opportunities. and that's what i loved about this speech. it was about optimism for our country. and it was about opportunity, not just problems. >> and i don't think there's a long reach. these weren't hail mary passes. let's at least have a vote on -- >> but he wasn't saying -- >> let's have a $9 minimum wage, real comprehensive immigration reform. basically he was moving the ball maybe one foot to the left of the midfield. >> it was either a home run or go home. >> what's the left wing part? was there a left wing piece to this speech last night? i didn't see it. >> if you believe the ideology is divided between government getting more involved in your lives and government getting

less, then of course the party that believes that government needs to be less involved is going to think well government mandating a minimum wage and doing these things with the universal pre-k. >> i would say it differently. i would say immigration reform that works, a $9 versus $7 thing -- >> which was the argument of the president. it's not about big government, it's about smart government. the question is where's the middle of the country? i think we learned in november 2012 where they are. >> pretty much. i think you're right. i think our colleague here was right. the president is polling. and i think the president is well polled on these issues. by the way you are the most normal politician i have ever come across in 40 or 50 years. i don't know how you stay so completely commonsensical. and i hope i'm not being patronizing. i think you're fantastic as a representative of regular people. >> thank you. >> itthank you very much, senat.

chuck todd, thank you sir. coming up, republican's response of marco rubio can be summed up easily. government bad. taxes worse. sound familiar? everyone will remember his clumsy water break. but what will matter is the messenger there may have changed but the message remains the same. also the most emotional part of the evening was when the president asked for reform on gun safety. we know getting something done on gun control is a lot tougher. plus what led christopher dorner to go on a rampage that left four people dead and ended with dorner himself apparently dying in an inferno in the woods? his former police chief bill bratton joins us tonight. let me finish tonight with the human condition with what happens to some of us when we can't deal with what life throws our way. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ male announcer ] how do you make america's favorite recipes?

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never smiled during president obama's state of the union address last night, even when the president said things that weren't exactly partisan. now we know why boehner stayed seated mostly. robert costa said according to his spokesman, he was trying to show respect for the president by not standing up and down. the spokesman said quote, speaker boehner and vice president vice president agreed last year to try to limit the number of standing ovations during the state of the union in hopes of having a more dignified atmosphere. boehner didn't clap because he wanted to be dignified. you got to believe it. we'll be right back. this is for real this time. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it.

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the short time i've been here in washington, nothing has frustrated me more than false choices like the one the president laid out tonight. >> well, welcome back to "hardball." by any measure marco rubio's water gate moment was an awkward

one for him and many who see him as the gop's savior. a greater consequence may be something more awkward. the effort to reposition itself as a kinder, gentler republican party. let's start with the content of rubio's speech. it was more or less a throwback last night. i called it a yafer speech from the old days. the youth speech which we heard back in the 1960s. let's watch him. >> presidents in both parties from john f. kennedy to ronald reagan have known that our free enterprise economy is the source of our middle class prosperity. but president obama? he believes it's the cause of our problems. >> well, that of course is nonsense. i don't think obama's ever attacked the free enterprise system, but rubio wasn't alone last night. a little earlier in the day freshman senator ted cruz of texas put on an ugly performance when he questioned chuck hagel's money. >> i will point out that right

now this committee knows absolutely nothing about the personal compensation chuck hagel received in 2008 and 2009 or 2010. we do not know, for example, if he received compensation for giving paid speeches at extreme or radical groups. >> well, cruz's attacks were so over the line that even john mccain who lamb basted hagel a week ago came to the senator's defense. >> senator hagel is an honorable man. he has served his country and no one on this committee at any time should impugn his character or his integrity. >> that's what cruz was doing. and john boehner couldn't stick to the script today for the softer, gentler, kinder gop. he told reporters at a breakfast briefing that obama doesn't have -- this is the new phrase. he doesn't have the guts to cut spending.

today more republican intransigents are holding up again by demanding the speaker -- actually harry reid from nevada come up with 60 votes to move forward the vote. and senator rand paul put a hold on president obama's pick. joining me now is salon's joan walsh and washington post's dana milbank. they can't beat these people so they're doing this obstructing. they're trying to smear this guy. they know he's going to be secretary of defense. there is absolutely no purpose in what cruz is doing except trying to move he's more obnoxious than neocons are. they're just messing around with the government of the united states, i think. >> they're messing around in a particularly ugly way. i mean, ted cruz, this is ugly stuff, chris. and the good news for marco rubio is he makes rubio look like a statesman. and john mccain god bless him is rising to the occasion.

and i haven't had many nice things to say about mccain in the last few years. it is separating out the attack dogs and the really vicious people from the people who are merely obstructionists. anyway, marco rubio missed a big moment last night. it's not about the drink of water. it comes down to the fact they do not understand that this new democratic electorate, latinos, women, african-americans, asians, young people. they like government. they really believe that government has a role in their lives. and they also know something that white voters have forgot. and that is that government created the middle class the first time around. only they mainly did it for white men, basically. and we can do it again for this next america. they get that. and marco rubio looks different, has a different name, says nice things about government, but it's the same old warmed over yafer or tea party nonsense. >> yeah! that's my point, joan. he's not saying anything new. he's saying i'm a latino, i can

talk like this. he was actually saying i can echo the same old stuff you have been washing your mouth out with for 30, 40 years. same mouthwash. and if i say it not even with an accent, if i have a name rubio somehow that's new. >> i agree with what you're saying there. the problem was not with what came up to his lips, it was what was coming out. >> you brought your water with you. you have your prop. first last night i have seen this described as boring, pathetic. i've never heard a speech maker described as parched. i mean, his thirst was his crowning feature. >> you could see him literally wiping sweat and wiping lips. it was heading for a crisis. but i don't think that's a problem for marco rubio. in fact, we're talking about water instead of the fkt that he gay this -- >> why was he so nervous last night? and he was so good at places like the convention? >> because time magazine calls

him the salve yor of the republican party. all this pressure on him, all eyes on him. he did, he read the broiler plate script. the reason he's attractive is not just because of his background but he's offering something new in terms of a new republican immigration policy. he gave that the most passing of references last night. >> what's he for? the second class deal? >> he's now suggesting there should be a path to legalization. he's behind this deal but he's afraid to say it to his own base right now. >> let's go over this pattern. the republicans obviously are -- you lose the election you try to make yourself more cosmetically pleasing. but look at the way it's been here. rubio, cruz with the nastiness again today, boehner. this sort of soured look at the $9 an hour minimum wage. don't republicans know they're stepping back into the bear trap when they say we don't even want to pay a guy 9 bucks an hour.

we're not going to give them $18,000 a year. that's too much. it puts them right back in the trap where mitt romney was caught trashing the 47%. right back in there. they walked into it. >> but they're not getting that. because they live in a world of an echo chamber whether it's fox news. we know that raising the minimum wage has a negligible effect. where they peddle the same crummy numbers to one another whether it's about climate change or the minimum wage. and they don't really ever step out into a world where they're challenged. the other thing to go back to rubio and what dana said is that people in the media, not us, but they bear responsibility for putting this guy on the time cover as the republican savior when he's offering nothing but a 21st century name for 19th century policy. >> joan, joan, joan. i want to pick a point.

are you expressing personal guilt for the fact time magazine called him the republican savior? >> no. i don't work there. >> i wouldn't have put him on the cover. never. >> i've got catholic guilt, but it doesn't go that far. i don't accept any guilt. he doesn't deserve it. >> part is everybody's trying to build up the next republican threat to obama. we're looking around like a fight game. a bunch of don kings. who's going to be the next guy to take on joe lewis? the bum of the month. who's going to be that guy? and everybody's in this game even you the sarcastic one. >> this is the time you build up these candidates so you can knock them down later. >> so christie? >> trying a bit with jindal now. >> he's down to about 35% now. >> but anyone who wants in at this point, we're going to go with. >> we're going to build them up to tear them down. thank you, joan. the unguilty joan walsh.

not at all in this regard. or any regard. thank you, dana milbank who writes a great column for the washington post. up next, the members of congress who arrive on the floor hours before the state of the union just so they can be seen doing this. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. this day calls you.

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sheila jackson says it's all for her constituents. quote, they are seeing me work on their behalf. many of them are moved by the moment. now retired started showing up early the days of carter. there he is with bill clinton. he would arrive early and share snacks while awaiting facetime with the president. people would say gosh, i saw you shaking hands with the president. take a look at ohio republican gene schmidt at last year's address. >> well, unfortunately for miss schmidt, that success on the check turned into a radio attack ad for her challenger. >> there's someone kissing the president. who's that? looks like congresswoman jean schmidt. >> ahh schmidt. is she a democrat?

she seems very close with the president. >> no, bob. she's a long-time republican politician but she did vote for the wall street bailout and for the president's debt limit increase. >> schmidt was primaried and lost for doing that, kissing the president. what did they say during their reaction? better butterfield nothing tops looking like you're sharing a joke in this case with president obama. quote, i said don't forget us in north carolina he said how could i. and we would erupt in laughter. that's a laugher. another tip, keep it short. howard engel remembers saying things like stand by israel to where "w" would say i believe that. finally we can't talk about the aisle strategies without bringing up the way many of us know michele bachmann. flash back to the state of the union when bush exited the room. >> mr. president, we can't wait

for you to come to minnesota. >> you want us back in minnesota? >> oh, absolutely! >> well, she wouldn't let go of him there. that was before her 2008 comments on this show about some of her colleagues being, of course, anti-american. the democrats she's talking about. anyway, up next, the most dramatic moment from last night's state of the union was president obama' plea, very emotional plea for just a vote on gun safety. that's a low bar, but will it lead to new laws out there? you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. how do you keep an older car running like new? you ask a ford customer. when they tell you that you need your oil changed you got to bring it in. if your tires need to be rotated, you have to get that done as well. jackie, tell me why somebody should bring they're car here to the ford dealership for service instead of any one of those other places out there. they are going to take care of my car because this is where it came from. price is right no problem, they make you feel like you're a family. get a synthetic blend oil change, tire rotation and much more, $29.95 after $10.00 rebate. if you take care of your car your car will take care of you.

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♪ [ indistinct shouting ] [ male announcer ] time and sales data. split-second stats. [ indistinct shouting ] ♪ it's so close to the options floor... [ indistinct shouting, bell dinging ] ...you'll bust your brain box. ♪ all on thinkorswim from td ameritrade. ♪ i'm kayla tausche with your cnbc market wrap. it was a mixed day on wall street. the dow jones industrial lost about 37 points to fall about 18

points below that key 14,000 level. the s&p 500 gained a fraction. the nasdaq for its part rose ten points. and shoppers are being tight fisted after higher payroll taxes. the commerce department says retail sales inched up by just .1% last month. that's the smallest increase in three months. that's it from cnbc. now back to "hardball." ♪ it has been two months since newtown u. i know this is not the first time this country has debated how to reduce gun violence, but this time is different. >> welcome back to "hardball." president obama built up to a powerful moment last night as he made his case for new gun legislation invoking the memory of shooting victims included

16-year-old hadiya pendelton ki. >> three weeks ago she was here in washington with her classmates performing for her country at my inauguration. and a week later she was shot and killed in a chicago park after school. just a mile away from my house. hadiya's parents are in this chamber tonight along with two dozen americans whose lives have been torn apart by gun violence. they deserve a vote. gabby giffords deserves a vote. the families of newtown deserve a vote. the families of aurora deserve a vote. the families of oak creek and tucson and blacksburg and the countless other communities

ripped open by gun violence, they deserve a simple vote. >> as you can see the public and the politico people are with them on this. the question is whether or not congressmewill get on board and pass meaningful gun safety reforms. congressman, i'm watching you. i am really watching you a lot lately. because you are a fascinating political figure. you represent a suburban county of philadelphia. you have been a prosecutor. you have a lot of, i could say, street cred in fighting crime and protecting police officers. where are you on gun safety? would you support an assault weapons ban? would you support a ban on these 30-round magazines? how far will you go in a very pro-gun state like pennsylvania? >> well, let me start with the legislation that we're dealing with, chris. i think it is something that can make a significant difference

and we're working on a bipartisan fashion to put forward legislation that will go after the straw purchasers. and that is the way we're watching guns get into the hands of criminals who are then going and acting out both in violent scenes in inner city neighborhoods and oftentimes in other kinds of cases like domestic violence. getting into the hands of people that should not have that gun. so i'm hopeful that we can make some progress on something like that. now, what it does is that's a thing that has been proven to have an impact and can make a difference. and i think that's what i'm looking for in gun legislation. >> well, what about the other proposals i mentioned? >> well, i think one of the other things and you're seeing from the experience again that i've had as a prosecutor, my sense is there's a growing support for at least looking at very, very seriously the gun show loophole which is another way that will create at least an

ability to have an impact on, you know, this question. and that's another area where i think you're going to probably see some support. >> should it not be able to buy a bushmaster? like in newtown, connecticut, should that kind of a person if he were to go into a store or a gun show be able to buy that kind of weapon as you see it? >> well, the person we're worried about is getting the guns in the hands of people that shouldn't have them. criminals and people with the mental issues. i think we've got to do more work to make sure we're cutting that inappropriate sale off. that ought to be the place we really focus. i think, chris, that's another thing. what can we get done? >> i agree. i accept that argument, but -- the question the president raised last night i think effectively in terms of rhetoric and politics was at least have a vote. do you expect the speaker will bring up a vote on assault weapons? will he do that? >> my sense is- what you're

watching happening right now is people are going to see how serious the president is in putting his influence into working i think first with the senate. and harry reid is really the guy who i think is on the front lines on this issue right now. what are they going to do in the senate, what's going to get out. and what will come forward. in that context, i'm hopeful because there are people on the other side of the aisle working together with the legislation that we've put here. not point for point the same, but very similar. so i'm hopeful that that's the kind of a thing we can get some action on that bill and see what else gets through the senate. >> good luck. 50i78 with you on this. thank you very much pat mann who is a very respected prosecutor in that region before he took the congress seat. thanks for joining us, mark. i think you saw the situation there he is from an area in play

now. they're going to be rough on any gun action. as you're following this, toughest issue is assault weapons. are we going to have any chance of getting a ban on them? >> yes. >> if the senate goes and house passes. >> i don't think it's over until it's over. i think people will -- >> will harry reid bring it up for a vote? >> i hope so. >> what are you hearing? >> we think that people ought to be given the opportunity to offer bills, offer amendments on the senate floor. he said it's going to be an open process. >> so if schumer wants a bill, it'll get a vote. and you think that'll happen? >> i think so. >> let's talk about this trafficking bill. how much of a mark would that play? how much would that stop dangerous behavior with guns? if you were stopping people from buying guns who had a criminal intent? >> right now the penalty for that is something like the same as for trafficking livestock or

chickens. and that's not a particularly stiff penalty and a lot of prosecutors don't want to do it. adding a penalty will make a difference. it's an important bill. >> if the call comes from chicago, i want to get semiautomatic weapons i'm going after a bank job, they would not suffer a serious criminal threat? >> straw purchasing for example is when somebody who is able to buy a gun because they have a clean record buys them for somebody else. passes them on. right now the way you get that person is proving they lied on their background check form. that's a weak penalty. it's hard to prove. nobody really wants to take those cases unless they involve a lot of guns and a lot of people. there ought to be a stiffer, clear statute. >> give me a picture of a really good background check that had no exceptions. how would that work? would it keep it out of the people who are criminally insane, obviously. spousal abusers, people with regular criminal records. give me a sense of how it would

work. you go to a gun store, they check you out. they don't make the sale on the location. you have to wait, right? >> the way it would work right now if you go to a federally licensed dealer, you get a background check. >> when do you get the gun? >> you buy the gun right then. a background check takes two minutes. that's why the other side who says it's a big burden are not really honest if we're being honest with ourselves. >> it's like a police officer stopping you for speeding. >> every police stop i've had took longer than a background check. >> you're working for tommy of boston and all the other mayors. and a reminder for us, the conversation at "hardball" continues long after we're off air here. visit our blog at hardballblog.msnbc.com or find us on facebook

facebook.com/hardball. the other big story we've been following, christopher dorner. this is "hardball," the place for politics. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 seems like etfs are everywhere these days. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 but there is one source with a wealth of etf knowledge tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 all in one place. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 introducing schwab etf onesource™. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 it's one source with the most commission-free etfs. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 one source with etfs from leading providers tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and extensive coverage of major asset classes... tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 all brought to you by one firm tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 with comprehensive education, tools and personal guidance tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 to help you find etfs that may be right for you. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 schwab etf onesource-- tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 for the most tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 commission-free etfs, tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 you only need one source and one place.

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otherworldly things. but there are some things i've never seen before. this ge jet engine can understand 5,000 data samples per second. which is good for business. because planes use less fuel, spend less time on the ground and more time in the air. suddenly, faraway places don't seem so...far away. ♪ we're back. the week-long manhunt for revenge seeking ex-police officer christopher dorner seemingly came to a fiery and violent end yesterday in big bear lake, california. many questions remain tonight about the former lapd officer and what sent him on a killing spree claiming four lives including the daughter of his former boss.

his manifesto, he was trying to clear his name after being fired by the lapd back in 2009 which was four years ago. he claims specific people he wanted to go after saying quote, they have awoken a sleeping cl wanted to go after. one person had some insight. what drove dorner to violence is bill bratten. he's former new york city much-respected police commissioner. he was mentioned in the manifesto, as was i. do you have a sense of how this is going to go down in history? >> i think it is historic in the sense's many unique aspects to it, the scale and the magnitude in some as pekts of it. i would hope he goes down in history as what he is. a reprehensible murderer. it's unfortunate those seeking to legitimize him and his actions. you can't legitimize what he did. >> this is what makes this story, i think, fascinating to people negatively and, in some

cases, strange cases, positively. he's a police officer. the idea of a police officer is trained to defend the weak, goes after others in his police department, goes after his colleagues, fellow officers with this almost, you know, co choreographed effort. he's putting out a manifesto with his opinion on everything on the plan et. what a strange mind we have here. >> i think that's part of the attraction of this incident, i part from the magnitude of the case, the violence, the number of murders and shootings. what was also interesting is that he was incredibly focused on police officers and their families. in the two sbanszs in which he came across civilians, the individual who he stole a truck from and the two housekeepers he held captive for a period of time, he did not harm them.

his actions were very specifically directed in a violent and unfortunately, violent way against police and their families. that is not done in america. that is relatively unique expression of anger and violence. it happens elsewhere in the world with some frequency. going after government officials in this country is almost unheard of, going after their families. >> let me ask you about this motive here and the right and wrong thing. we constantly think about what's insanity and what's sanity. the fact that he could delineate the -- distinguish between the police officers and their families and the fact that he would spare the lives, other than the people that he came across, would tie them up and kill them, which is less successful if you want to keep a person out of action. what do you make of that? do you think that shows he was sane and evil at the same time? or how would you describe what kind of mind he had at the point? >> he had access to three different profiles that were

done on him, including some within law enforcement. and it is quite obvious that this was a deteriorating situation, a very narsistic individual. one of them described him as an injus tisz collective. quick to be sighted. quick to see people out to get him. for the l.a. pmt d., one of the things that they're going to have do in their afteraction initiatives is take a close look as to how he got on the job in the first place. they have one of the most exhaustive screening processes in the country. he was able to slip through. whether his deterioration began after he was a police officer and his deployments over seas or missed assignments early on, that will be part of the investigation. >> in d.c. where i live and have worked all of these years, there was a program where they raced a lot of people into the police

service and they made a lot of miss takes. >> they did that in miami, also, back in the '80s. and the border patrol right now is finding with their significant wrap up over the last couple of years. a lot of people got on to the job who should not have gotten into those positions. >> let me ask you about a police officer. do you find having led them into battle, having led them in very difficult neighborhoods, you have to go to clubs and break things up. what special pressure is there on a cop? >> they are expected to go to a danger in this circumstance, in every sbansz in which they came into contact with the suspected. they were going toward him to engage him. they were not fleeing from him. were they fearful? certainly that they would not be human if they were not, that an individual who was specifically targeting them. but we are very fortunate to

have a police profession that is made up of very different than what this individual turned out to be. >> thank you so much. you're one of the great ones. former commissioner in l.a. and former commissioner in new york city. we're going to be right back. blank blaeng.

>> let me finish tonight with this tragic story of christopher dorner, this ex-police officer who we believe came to his fiery end in the california foothills. we live in a big country, so many people living lives of challenge and joy and sadness

and, so often, basic human triumph. people grow up, they survive the tough time of adolescence and they get passed the taunts and the cliquishness of high school. we get by the challenge of finding work, of finding someone to be loved by. we find children who come our way, meeting as strangers, actually, when you have them and then committing to our lives. this is how 300 plus million of us do it. we do. we make it. we live lives that end up making good sense to those around us. sometimes it's all in the way we think or feel or can't do either. it all breaks down and we, too, become danger, even lethal. when these things happen, we make the news and we feel something. as we watch the story of a man killing others, killing out of vengeance or human interest itself, what do we make of it? it's easy to tell these stories, and we did, i did, here on television.